the GENESIS story...

[ivan_2068]

Rick and Roll wrote:

I was under the impression that Hackett was repressed from the beginning. this did not start after Gabriel left. Tony Banks and Mike Rutherford have always exerted the most imfluence.

Well, in the Gabriel era the roles were clear in Genesis, Tony made 90% of the music and Peter did 90% of the lyrics, Hackett worked with Tony creating that atmosp´here that made Genesis famous, Rutherford and Collins almost did nothing except a couple of tracks left to them.

Everybody knew clearly what their role was, nobody asked for more.

When Peter left and specially after Voyage, Hackett realized that he could write in the same level as Banks so he wanted a piece of the cake, but Tony wasn't ready to leave his control so he preferred to divide it among the band (This would still leave Banks as the main songwritter and the rest) instead of leaving Hackett as an equal in the songwritting.

Get one of the ATOTT videos or Genesis In Concert with Collins singing and Bill Bruford on drums, you can see that the cameras don't care for Steve, it's like the three friends and the others, take alook if you have it, the cameras only follow Phil and Tomny, a bit less Mike but there's not a single close uop of Steve.

Rick and Roll wrote:

Right about Rutherford. that's what I've been saying for years about Genesis. This isn't a Collins thing. Let's not forget he was in Brand X from 1976-1980. Banks and Rutherford are as much to "blame".

That was only at the beginning of the three man era, the problem with Tony is that he's not a natural leader, he made his best or his most popular material when he had somebody pushing him (His solo career is a prove of that), ATTW3 and DUKE are mostly by Tony (Some form of hybrids) but in ABACAB Phil took the lead of the band, he started with the Phoenix Horns, Tony didn't wanted Earth Wind & Fire with them but Collins made a big issue and all had to accept, that was the end of the band it was Collins and his session musicians.

The later Genesis albums sound almost exactly as Phil's solo stuff, there's people that believe somgs loke Sussudio are Genesis tracks, it's simply depressive.

Roger-Dot-Lee wrote:

And you're giving Union a pass? Or is it that it's just so bad that it doesn't deserve to be considered 'Yes'?

I agree Onion is terrible also but at least there was hope seing Bruford, Wakeman and Howe back, Big Generator was the lowest point of Yes career.

Iván

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by ivan_2068

Rick and Roll wrote:


Get one of the ATOTT videos or Genesis In Concert with Collins singing and Bill Bruford on drums, you can see that the cameras don't care for Steve, it's like the three friends and the others, take alook if you have it, the cameras only follow Phil and Tomny, a bit less Mike but there's not a single close uop of Steve.

The later Genesis albums sound almost exactly as Phil's solo stuff, there's people that believe somgs loke Sussudio are Genesis tracks, it's simply depressive.

I agree Onion is terrible also but at least there was hope seing Bruford, Wakeman and Howe back, Big Generator was the lowest point of Yes career.

Iván

I don't think the camera thing matters a lick. Come to think of it, Lamb side three, W and W, and trick have more Hackett than any other Genesis record. He wrote plenty.

I don't find the later Genesis similar to the solo Collins. If anything, a lot is similar to what Rutherford was writing at that time. Collins isn't responsible for the awful instrumental part of Abacab.

That people think Sussudio or whatever it's called is Genesis just don't know the band. They just recognize the vocals.

What about some of the goofy songs Gabriel used to sing for Genesis? Is that so much different? Some of Supper's Ready, Counting Out Time, etc, is that really prog? I prefer early genesis..I just don't get the blinders.

I like Union

I have to leave for the day, but Ivan bear in mind this is all friendly discourse...I always enjoy your comments and your passion for Genesis

[ivan_2068]

Rick and Roll wrote:

I don't think the camera thing matters a lick. Come to think of it, Lamb side three, W and W, and trick have more Hackett than any other Genesis record. He wrote plenty.

Yes it matters Rick, the band participates in the edition of the video, and you can clearly see there three friends (Collins, Banks and Rutherford) plus two guests Hackett and Bruford.

1/2 in serious 1/2 as a joke but Banks has said something like "Hackett left us so we deleted his parts from Supper's Ready".

Trick doiesn't really have that much of Hackett on the other had W&W has much more, but his best stuff (Added to his second and third albums) was rejected top place Wot Gorilla? and the horrendous YOSW.



Rick and Roll wrote:

I don't find the later Genesis similar to the solo Collins. If anything, a lot is similar to what Rutherford was writing at that time. Collins isn't responsible for the awful instrumental part of Abacab.

Honestly all the soft songs from ABACAB to We Can't Dance sound as Collins solo to me.

Rick and Roll wrote:

That people think Sussudio or whatever it's called is Genesis just don't know the band. They just recognize the vocals.

Well, the contemporary adult POP is present in both, the sound, arrangements are all similar and both as boring.

Rick and Roll wrote:

What about some of the goofy songs Gabriel used to sing for Genesis? Is that so much different? Some of Supper's Ready, Counting Out Time, etc, is that really prog? I prefer early genesis..I just don't get the blinders.

Suppers's Ready is prrobably the best epic ever, any joke is erased by the mind blowing There's an angel standing in the sun or the incredible solo.

BTW: ëter only made the lyrics for The Lamb, he didn't added a single note, so Counting Out Time is to be credited to Tony.

Rick and Roll wrote:

I like Union

It gave me hope but like it is a strong word


Rick and Roll wrote:

I have to leave for the day, but Ivan bear in mind this is all friendly discourse...I always enjoy your comments and your passion for Genesis

Thanks, I enjoy it also.

Iván

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally Posted by ivan_2068

Trick doiesn't really have that much of Hackett on the other had W&W has much more, but his best stuff (Added to his second and third albums) was rejected top place Wot Gorilla? and the horrendous YOSW.

Like Blood on the Rooftops! I love Hackett's guitar in that and the poignant lyrics too.