Metallica

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by ion_tichy

Sorry for the trouble folks. It was not my intention to make conversation but rather to suggest music for auralmoon. After reading the comments here I now have to agree that auralmoon is maybe not the right forum for Metallica even though some of their work may appear to be progrock-like.

Regards,

Ion

Sorry about that, ion. I not only spoke for you, but got your intentions wrong! A double whammy!

Anyway, a question... I do think a lot of hard rock has progressive elements - and my theory is that people who dislike heavy music are reluctant to see that - so how do you think Metallica fits? Is it just because of the orchestra?

For me, a song like "And Justice For All" has all of the prog definitions. Layers of sound, a complicated structure, many changes, a mellow midsection, plus other things. I find the most progressive Metallica to be the longer earlier pieces...certainly not something wrapped in an orchestra.

Please let me know what you think...

[teermin8r]

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

Sorry about that, ion. I not only spoke for you, but got your intentions wrong! A double whammy!

Like you haven't done that before

[mossy]

Hey tee..have a great vacation in Yellowstone! Those furry things you bump into trying to find the outside bog at night are bears.

Enjoy yourself.

[mailotron]

[quote=mossy]Hey tee..have a great vacation in Yellowstone! Those furry things you bump into trying to find the outside bog at night are bears.

Dear Mossy,
I hope you enjoy your hollydays and as Frank Zappa said one day be carefull and .... don't eat that Yellow stone !








Have a nice day

Mailo

[ion_tichy]

Listening to programs on Auralmoon (like Richter Scale, Interzone, Gagliarchives) has made me aware of variations on progressive music such as progressive metal, progressive gothic metal/rock, symphonic rock, etc.

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

Anyway, a question... I do think a lot of hard rock has progressive elements - and my theory is that people who dislike heavy music are reluctant to see that - so how do you think Metallica fits? Is it just because of the orchestra?

I feel that the Metallica work has one foot (or at least toes) in progressive metal and one foot in hard rock. It is the mix of melodies, rhythyms, lyrics, and energy. These qualities make their music stand apart from other heavy metal bands for me. It is not a continuous wall of blasting music.

The orchestra is not it. The orchestration of their songs (the assembly of musical ideas, the flow and connection between pieces of a song, the nuances, the way the instruments are played) is the key.

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

For me, a song like "And Justice For All" has all of the prog definitions. Layers of sound, a complicated structure, many changes, a mellow midsection, plus other things. I find the most progressive Metallica to be the longer earlier pieces...certainly not something wrapped in an orchestra.

I agree with your assessment.

The Black album was probably not a good suggestion. But to me, it represents maturation of their music and themselves.

I mentioned the S&M album because of the melding of two groups of artists (Metallica and SFS) and the effect. S&M has layers of sound, a complicated structure, a robust quality, and "atmospheric" episodes. You can drill down into the performance and pick out those progressive passages.

Cheers,

Ion

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by ion_tichy

a robust quality,

Hey "robust" is an overused business term!

Nice reply, Ion...good stuff.

[progdirjim(Admin)]

Originally Posted by ion_tichy

Listening to programs on Auralmoon (like Richter Scale, Interzone, Gagliarchives) has made me aware of variations on progressive music such as progressive metal, progressive gothic metal/rock, symphonic rock, etc.

I feel that the Metallica work has one foot (or at least toes) in progressive metal and one foot in hard rock. It is the mix of melodies, rhythyms, lyrics, and energy. These qualities make their music stand apart from other heavy metal bands for me. It is not a continuous wall of blasting music.
<snip>
Ion

Hello and welcome Ion. That's a well constructed argument you've presented, however we're not planning on adding any Metallica at this time. I see you've acknowledged that further down the thread, but I didn't want to ignore a well-reasoned post. We've had people in the past post a psychotic rant about how stupid we were not to have <insert band here> on the playlist, and your post certainly deserves a reply more than those.

I'm not a big heavy metal fan, and thus far, I've had a hard time hearing the prog elements in heavy metal bands that have been suggested as "moon-worthy". Queensryche is another example. I have a pseudo-theory about that - I'm a big proponent of "feel" in music - and I think that for me, the heavy metal "feel" covers up any prog "feel" to my ears. I have a similar thing with blues, which I like a lot. Scott Henderson has an album or two of instrumental blues that is quite arguably prog, but when I listen to it I hear BLUES.

So, while we try to be objective on Aural Moon, and I'm a big supporter of variety and stretching the boundaries of "prog", it still has to "feel" prog to me, and thus far,very little metal has done so. We do have quite a bit of heavier music here, including some instrumental or mostly instrumental Dream Theater, some Pain Of Salvation, etc.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestion and I hope you contine to listen and post!

pdj

[Rick and Roll]

from Dot-Lee:

[What I think? I think metallica on the Moon is about as bad an idea as putting me in charge of the diplomatic mission to Vatican City]


I would never propose Metallica to be on the Moon. I simply feel they have certain songs that are just as progressive as most other artists, and that it's lost in the heaviness.

But again, I've said that before and I'll repeat it, I am not proposing them for the playlist.

Originally Posted by progdirjim

Queensryche is another example. I have a pseudo-theory about that - I'm a big proponent of "feel" in music - and I think that for me, the heavy metal "feel" covers up any prog "feel" to my ears.

pdj

Excellent. I love the band, did a show on them, like all that they are about. When I read a quote such as this it gives me a perspective of why they never caught on as progressive.

I can't relate when I hear "oh that sucks, etc"...but when I read this theory, it's a valid point and inarguable.

It explains why a band like Queen can be on the Moon but not them. And that's why I don't push inclusion on the playlist.

I think for my show I will toss in a few cuts here and there instead of featuring certain acts in full.

[Roger -Dot- Lee(Admin)]

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

Sorry about that, ion. I not only spoke for you, but got your intentions wrong! A double whammy!

You do that on occasion, don't you?

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

For me, a song like "And Justice For All" has all of the prog definitions. Layers of sound, a complicated structure, many changes, a mellow midsection, plus other things. I find the most progressive Metallica to be the longer earlier pieces...certainly not something wrapped in an orchestra.

Please let me know what you think...

What I think? I think metallica on the Moon is about as bad an idea as putting me in charge of the diplomatic mission to Vatican City. Besides the fact that I love my steak too much to give it up on Fridays, I gave up giving stuff up for lent for lent many years ago and I'm sure that wouldn't fly, all things considered. In other words, I can think of a few worse things, but Damn(TM).

[Yesspaz]

Originally Posted by Roger -Dot- Lee

What I think? I think metallica on the Moon is about as bad an idea as putting me in charge of the diplomatic mission to Vatican City.

Ah Dot, so glad to have another Southern boy here calling a spade a spade.

Originally Posted by Yesspaz

Ah Dot, so glad to have another Southern boy here calling a spade a spade.

What is your definition of a spade?

[ion_tichy]

I surrender.



Ion